Things got 'awkward': Jim Knowles opens up about move from Ohio State to Penn State

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- On Jan. 22, two days after the 2024 season had officially ended with Ohio State beating Notre Dame to win the College Football Playoff national championship, Penn State coach James Franklin was in Philadelphia recruiting. His cell phone rang.

It was 5:06 a.m. Ohio State defensive coordinator Jim Knowles was calling about Penn State's open DC job.

"To be honest with you," Franklin said, "I didn't know how serious it was, but it went pretty quickly from that point on."

Franklin hasn't claimed many wins over Ohio State, a program that is 12-1 against the Nittany Lions since 2012, but luring Knowles away from Columbus -- not to mention a handful of other blue-blooded programs -- was a big one.

Knowles, 60, is widely regarded as one of the top defensive coordinators in the country. His defense at Ohio State last year ranked No. 1 in points allowed per game (12.9), yards allowed per game (255), yards allowed per play (4.2) and red zone touchdown percentage (42%). Which is why his move is one of the most stunning of the offseason. The veteran coordinator who had just won a national title at one of the nation's wealthiest and most storied programs is moving to a rival Big Ten school.

"First thing I thought was, 'How did we get him?'" Penn State defensive tackle Zane Durant said.

Knowles, in a recent interview in his new office, was candid about why he left Ohio State, and told ESPN it boiled down to the timing of Ohio State's contract extension offer. He was hoping to get a deal done before the Buckeyes went to the national championship game. Had Ohio State offered him one before they faced Notre Dame, Knowles said he "would not have explored or considered other options."

"I did not want to put anyone, including myself, in a position to have to deal with it immediately following the national championship game," he said. "And that's the way it happened."

It created a situation, he said, that eventually turned "awkward."

"Season's over, everything coming to a head again quickly," Knowles said. "Ohio State hasn't come forward with a deal, and it's like, OK, if I'm going to act on this or at least explore it, I have got to make the call."

ON JAN. 26, the Ohio State Buckeyes and about 30,000 fans celebrated the first team in the sport's history to win four straight playoff games, culminating in a championship following the inaugural 12-team College Football Playoff.

What created a stir, though, was who wasn't in Ohio Stadium.

"I was asked not to go to the parade, and I respect that," Knowles told ESPN during an April interview in his office at Penn State's Lasch Football Building. "I'm not trying to be a secretive guy. Here's this offer, there were a couple others that were every bit as much money, and then there was Ohio State's offer, which was still great money, but not as much, so then you have to sit with it."

Penn State offered Knowles a $3.1 million annual salary that would make him the highest-paid defensive coordinator in college football. He's also from Philadelphia, where he went to St. Joe's Prep, and grew up a Penn State fan forced to watch the Sunday recap show with George Paterno because he couldn't find the games on any of the three channels he got at home. Knowles also had known Franklin for years and spoken to him about the job before. Knowles flew to Oklahoma to see his fiancée for a few days and consider his options.

"Maybe I'll take less because Ohio State's a great place," he said, "but then they asked me not to come to the parade. So then you're like, 'OK, honestly, the writing is on the wall.' Now it becomes something. It's always something on the outside world, but now it's become something here, too. I hadn't made any decisions, but you just kind of feel like -- I wouldn't say I'm not wanted here -- but you just feel like, OK, now it's gotten awkward."

Meanwhile, at the national championship celebration, Ohio State coach Ryan Day was at the podium praising Knowles as "the defensive coordinator of the best defense in the country that was completely dominant in the playoff."

Day declined comment for this story.

Knowles said a new deal at Ohio State was "really under question" in the days leading up to the national championship game, but nobody ever said his contract wouldn't be extended. It just hadn't happened as early as Knowles would have preferred.

"Ohio State didn't want to do it," he said. "And so then all of a sudden it becomes a rush at that point because people are trying to make decisions on other jobs. They want to know whether you're interested or not."

When asked about Knowles' contract situation, Ohio State athletic director Ross Bjork declined comment.

Franklin said Penn State was already "pretty far along" in its search to replace former defensive coordinator Tom Allen, who left to take the same job at Clemson. Franklin had been considering a group of candidates that included some NFL assistants, college coordinators and a few head coaches that had been out of work.

And then Knowles entered the mix.

"But then, Ohio State's trying to keep him," Franklin said. "We're involved. Oklahoma needs a defensive coordinator. Notre Dame needs a defensive coordinator. I think what people don't realize a lot of times -- even for these head coaching positions -- there's not as many obvious candidates out there that people think. It's a smaller list than people realize. So now you've got four or five football powers all fighting over one guy at the end of the cycle."

Franklin called his boss, athletic director Pat Kraft, and told him the price to hire Knowles.

"In years past, we wouldn't have been able to do that," Franklin said.

The difference?

"Pat and the president," he said. "Not lip service to say we're trying to win at the highest level."

Knowles said the 2024 season at Ohio State was the toughest environment he had ever been a part of -- there was "finger-pointing" at the defense after the 32-31 Oct. 12 loss at Oregon, and it was grueling piecing the team back together after its fourth straight loss to rival Michigan in November -- but that's not why he left.

"I don't think it did," Knowles said, referring to the pressure of coaching at Ohio State and if that affected his decision. "I mean, if I'm honest with myself, I don't think it did. You become accustomed to it. It didn't keep me up nights or anything like that. I'm up nights trying to get it right. But I did that when I coached at Cornell or Western Michigan. I was the same way. You grind over those details for the players because you don't ever want to put them in a bad position or not have coached them something. You just become accustomed to the environment."

When Knowles was first hired at Ohio State, he said former friends and teammates who were in the Columbus area tried to warn him "this is an incredibly difficult and highly scrutinized place to coach," he said. "Fans are tough.

"I kind of blew it off," Knowles said. "I'm like, 'I grew up in Philly. I've been around Eagles fans. We threw snowballs at Santa Claus.' But yeah, when you're in, it's really tough."

"It's real," he said. "Anybody who works there will -- if they're being honest -- will tell you that it's real. It's almost like a badge of honor there. It's like, 'Oh yeah, well this is Ohio State. This is what you have to expect. This is just the way it is here.' If you give up a touchdown but you win 63-7, somebody somewhere is going to have something to say about it."

FRANKLIN SAID HE planned to take one full day this spring to watch the Nittany Lions' past two games against Ohio State and go through Knowles' scouting reports in detail. In 2023, Penn State lost 20-12 to Ohio State in Columbus after Knowles' defense held the Nittany Lions to one touchdown. Last year, Penn State lost 20-13 to Ohio State, dropping Franklin's record to 1-10 against the Buckeyes.

"We'll as a staff dig into that deeply and spend a day grinding through it and hearing the tough feedback and asking tough questions," Franklin said. "That'll be really valuable."

As Ohio State's defensive coordinator, Knowles studied Penn State quarterback Drew Allar probably as much as anyone, and he has already shared his scouting report. Allar called it "eye-opening."

The report included what Ohio State thought of Allar athletically, how he went through his progressions, and the tendencies he showed on film. Much of it was what his own Penn State coaches had already told him, but hearing it from a former opponent drilled it in.

"Knowing that other opponents saw it on film means it's true, I have to get better in those areas," Allar said. "And there were a couple unique things, like deep balls in general -- I put a lot of air on balls down the field and I thought that was kind of unique. I never really heard that before and I thought that was a good perspective shift for me. There's time to let the receivers run under the ball, but there's times when you have to put it on them right away."

Franklin said the players -- and the staff -- need "thick enough skin" to hear the feedback and "not be sensitive." He's looking for Knowles to educate the team on who Ohio State was concerned about when it played Penn State -- and who the Buckeyes weren't concerned about. What things did the Nittany Lions do well? Did they have any tendencies or indicators that were giving away pass or run plays?

In addition to sharing Ohio State's perspective, Franklin said he asked Knowles to do an "honest evaluation" of the Nittany Lions' offense following spring football practices -- and he asked the same of offensive coordinator Andy Kotelnicki to provide a report on what he saw from Knowles' defense.

"There's some sensitivity to how you deliver that message because you're peers and you're working together," Franklin said. "Whereas when he was the defensive coordinator at Ohio State, there was no sensitivity to it. This is how we see it -- black and white. We're not worried about anybody's feelings. So to get that report, yeah, I think is powerful."

Knowles downplayed any notion that his insider tips might make the difference in winning at Ohio State on Nov. 1.

"I don't know about that," he said. "There's so much more to do to get ready."

At the very least, Kotelnicki said Knowles has everyone's attention because "he's been there."

"This is what we have to do," Kotelnicki said. "Why? Because if we don't, it's going to cost you a game. And so yeah, you hope that his perspective in that area is the difference -- or is part of the difference."

PENN STATE OPENS the season with four straight home games -- none bigger than Sept. 27 against Oregon, the first indicator of how seriously to take the Nittany Lions in the Big Ten and CFP races. Oregon was the only team able to score more than 17 points on Knowles' Ohio State defense last fall.

Knowles said he never personally received any death threats following the loss to Michigan -- as Day's family did -- and it was more difficult to go to work following the loss at Oregon because he felt "like I had let a lot of people down because defensively, we struggled."

It was a different story in the CFP quarterfinal at the Rose Bowl, when Ohio State trounced the Ducks 41-21 on New Year's Day.

Without quarterback Dillon Gabriel, and ranking No. 109th in the country in returning production (43%) according to ESPN's Bill Connelly, Oregon looks vastly different than it did a year ago. Knowles, though, is still running the same defense at Penn State and again has NFL talent to execute it.

"They've consistently been very good," Knowles said of the Nittany Lions' defense. "I'm able to blend more concepts than just throw everything out and start over. I've been real mindful of that process. If I can create things that are similar to what they've done here, that's what I've done -- tried to air on the side of similar terminology. When you come into a defense that's been pretty good, there's a culture here. And I feel like coach Franklin has built that.

"You definitely see a real defensive mentality in the whole thing," he said. "And so I thought, well, maybe I can be of service. You get to my age, and you're like, 'Where can I help the most? How can I add value?' and just be a part of something that's bigger than myself. When you're in this business, sometimes you see situations where people get a hard time for winning 10, 11 games here. Maybe I can help."

Franklin has won 80.2% of his games (97-24) against opponents not named Ohio State, Michigan and Oregon. He's 4-18 against that trio. The Nittany Lions avoid Michigan for a second straight season but travel to Ohio State on Nov. 1 -- where they haven't won in six straight tries.

"Every year, it's one or two games," senior defensive end Dani Dennis-Sutton said. "Everybody knows the biggest teams. If we get over that hump as far as beating the big teams, then I think we'll be where we want to be. For the past however many years, Penn State has always had a dominant defense -- hard-nosed, blue-collar defense -- but the last part is just coming up big in those big-time games and big-time moments."

Dennis-Sutton is facing the lofty expectations of helping replace the production from former defensive end Abdul Carter, who was drafted by the New York Giants. Dennis-Sutton had 13 tackles for loss last year and 8.5 sacks playing opposite Carter.

To better understand Knowles' defense, the Nittany Lions watched film of Ohio State's defense. Senior defensive tackle Zane Durant said they watched a lot of the national title game against Notre Dame, and the win against Tennessee, plus some regular-season games to study "basic concepts early in the season."

"It's unique," Durant said. "I'm learning a lot of stuff through coach Knowles. He's a pro-style type of defense. I feel like this is beneficial for me, for my future and things like that and learning the game a lot more. He's breaking it down in the details and depth, why we're doing things, and kind of just giving us a bigger picture to why we do it, so it can help you retain the information more."

Knowles is Penn State's third defensive coordinator in as many seasons, but Knowles said he wouldn't have joined a program he didn't believe could contend for a national title. Unlike defenses he has been hired to resurrect in the past (see: Oklahoma State), Penn State's defense isn't broken.

"We've played them three years and the games have always been close," Knowles said. "You see the investment financially. I noticed, like we had at Ohio State last year, you see guys coming back that could have moved on. I think that's a very telling example of the health of the program."

Dennis-Sutton is one of them.

He said Knowles' defense has "so many different intricacies" in one play and it hasn't been easy to learn.

"But once you learn it, you're like, 'Oh, OK, I see why he was the No. 1 defense,'" Dennis-Sutton said. "Because he has an answer for everything."

The question will be if he has one for Ohio State.